That's very well said. It is a tragedy that so many of our brothers and sisters in Africa suffer so greatly, but their faith is alive and vigorous. We are blessed to have one of these brave men as the godfather to one of our sons. I pray regularly that our next pope will hail from Africa.
The similar thing just happened last month after the Canterbury Anglicans approved blessing same-sex couples. The African Anglicans are holding it together and rejecting Justin Welby and this "blessing of gay couples" initiative while also maintaining a ban on gay weddings. (It's almost the exact same thing the DDF is promoting.) The African Anglicans see through the ploy and they now "repudiate" his leadership as the head of the Anglican Communion. I am afraid the Holy Father and his fellow Argentinian Cardinal Fernandez have swatted a similar African hornet's nest on this issue.
You would think this would have been obvious before the fact. It seems impossible that Rome could have been ignorant of what happened with Welby. But maybe they were? I have no idea. Frankly, this would be an interesting thing for some reporting.
The reactions on both the right and the left seem to basically be "ignore the text and carry on as you wish."
Which makes both Francis and Fernandez look incredibly weak.
At the vigil on Saturday the priest at the parish I attend when I visit my parents (in the Diocese of Lansing) read a letter from the Bishop saying that it was not going to be implemented yet and there was "more study" needed.
Considering I am getting ready to attend a Christmas Day EF mass at this same parish (it is an ordinary territorial parish where they do both the new and EF masses) it looks like there are a lot of ways in which Francis is being effectively ignored.
They're not going to do anything to the African Bishops.
The Vatican guys we're talking about here are stuck in the 1970's. They're European intellectuals - even if not from Europe that is where their prejudices come from and who they want to impress. That's where their mindset is.
In this mind space, Africa is a place where you do corporal works of mercy. It's not a place where people have their own agency or make their own decisions: Africans are supposed to hold out their empty hands so they can be filled. It's a place of passivity, not activity.
This isn't racism, it's condescension.
In a very real sense, FS isn't for Africa so they won't notice or make a big deal out of Africa's reaction.
I also agree but a small cynical and vindictive part of my psyche would settle for the next Archbishop of Munich to be African. Wouldn’t the inevitable reaction shine a light on what Germans really think and believe?
I've never thought of that. That would be both refreshing and hilarious. Maybe we could just replace about half of the Bishops in the west with Africans and let them whip us into shape.
For all its talk of synodality, the Vatican sure has a tin ear when it comes the Church in Africa especially. And folks wonder why so many of us Catholics are so skeptical of the entire push for "synodality." Well, we know blatant hypocrisy when we see it. We recognize what a smokescreen is. These elitist Europeans must not think much of the intelligence of Africans. Oh, but we can be assured that, in the Church of Synodality, those on the margins are always heard.
In the olden days when a king called an Ecumenical Council to oppose the Pope, the Pope called an Ecumenical Council to thwart the one the king called. It's possible the synod on synodality is an attempt to thwart the Germans.
I suspect that in ages past both monarchs and popes thought and acted considerably more decisively than modern rulers do. In the modern world, justificatory language seems to be used with increasing vagueness. I suppose that's one sign of the way the bureaucratic mind thinks. It is likely to act decisively but then justify its action publicly with clouds of confusing verbiage.
As others in the thread have mentioned, an African Pope is what the Church needs. Orthodoxy and common sense, things the Western hierarchy has little of.
Didn't read it all (getting mind numbed from everything about this) but if the bishops of Malawi said that blessings of “same-sex unions of any kind, are not permitted in Malawi" that does NOT mean they rebuffed it, but couldn't they be clarifying they aren't blessing the union itself? But could still bless the people? In the longer part, they said "“to avoid creating confusion among the faithful, we direct that for pastoral reasons, blessings of any kind and for same-sex unions of any kind are not permitted in Malawi.”" which to me sounds like they aren't blessing the union.
I wonder if a lot of the difference between European sentiment and not just Africa, but much of the rest of the world, is that in Europe the bishops and church institutions are just so used to being in relationships with secular powers and at the center of the culture that they not only have a strong motivation (both psychologically and financially) to appease the secular powers and culture, but they don't even know what doing otherwise would look like. They have few muscles for resistance or marginalization. Some are literal European aristocrats themselves.
But in places like Africa and Asia, Christians are still used to being oppressed and marginalized. They deal with violence and martyrdom still. And their commitment to the gospel is refined by this.
Its my impression that orthodoxy increasingly exists in inverse proportion to the secular power and cultural dominance of the church in a given region.
// This suggests that in its response to Fiducia supplicans, the Church in Africa could be forming a powerful united front. //
That could be very useful. Some large groups need to declare doctrine forcefully to counter the endless stream of confusing language emanating from the top levels of the Vatican.
I've long felt the future of the Church is in Africa, and this only confirms that sentiment.
We have African priests in our diocese. They are good stewards of the faith.
As we have so often seen before, it is the local churches making martyrs that are also making sense.
That's very well said. It is a tragedy that so many of our brothers and sisters in Africa suffer so greatly, but their faith is alive and vigorous. We are blessed to have one of these brave men as the godfather to one of our sons. I pray regularly that our next pope will hail from Africa.
Thanks for your kindness.
I don't have any ideas about our next pope. I just hope he actually believes the faith.
The similar thing just happened last month after the Canterbury Anglicans approved blessing same-sex couples. The African Anglicans are holding it together and rejecting Justin Welby and this "blessing of gay couples" initiative while also maintaining a ban on gay weddings. (It's almost the exact same thing the DDF is promoting.) The African Anglicans see through the ploy and they now "repudiate" his leadership as the head of the Anglican Communion. I am afraid the Holy Father and his fellow Argentinian Cardinal Fernandez have swatted a similar African hornet's nest on this issue.
See https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/justin-welby-gay-marriage-church-england-b2447903.html
You would think this would have been obvious before the fact. It seems impossible that Rome could have been ignorant of what happened with Welby. But maybe they were? I have no idea. Frankly, this would be an interesting thing for some reporting.
// It seems impossible that Rome could have been ignorant of what happened with Welby. But maybe they were? //
It seems likely that an autocratic leader will be ill disposed towards advisors handing him too much unwelcome news.
Well no matter what happens, one thing is clear:
Cardinal Fernandez's prohibition on bishops issuing their own guidance is being flat out ignored
Cardinal Fernandez should be ignored.
The reactions on both the right and the left seem to basically be "ignore the text and carry on as you wish."
Which makes both Francis and Fernandez look incredibly weak.
At the vigil on Saturday the priest at the parish I attend when I visit my parents (in the Diocese of Lansing) read a letter from the Bishop saying that it was not going to be implemented yet and there was "more study" needed.
Considering I am getting ready to attend a Christmas Day EF mass at this same parish (it is an ordinary territorial parish where they do both the new and EF masses) it looks like there are a lot of ways in which Francis is being effectively ignored.
Of course homophobia is involved here! Give me a break. Doesn't mean these bishops aren't raising legitimate concerns, but still.
Are you saying that any expression of dislike of male homosexual behaviour is "homophobic"?
They're not going to do anything to the African Bishops.
The Vatican guys we're talking about here are stuck in the 1970's. They're European intellectuals - even if not from Europe that is where their prejudices come from and who they want to impress. That's where their mindset is.
In this mind space, Africa is a place where you do corporal works of mercy. It's not a place where people have their own agency or make their own decisions: Africans are supposed to hold out their empty hands so they can be filled. It's a place of passivity, not activity.
This isn't racism, it's condescension.
In a very real sense, FS isn't for Africa so they won't notice or make a big deal out of Africa's reaction.
// If Rome takes no action against the African Church, how could it defend taking action against other bishops? //
That's assuming an inclination towards consistency :o)
Christ himself found refuge in Africa for his body to grow in strength and stature. May it be the same for his body the Church.
Awesome, thanks for that.
That is a beautiful observation, thank you.
You could make quite a meditation out of what it means that the Christ Child took refuge in Africa.
I really hope and pray the next Pope is African.
Please God
I also agree but a small cynical and vindictive part of my psyche would settle for the next Archbishop of Munich to be African. Wouldn’t the inevitable reaction shine a light on what Germans really think and believe?
I've never thought of that. That would be both refreshing and hilarious. Maybe we could just replace about half of the Bishops in the west with Africans and let them whip us into shape.
I just said the same thing to my wife.
For all its talk of synodality, the Vatican sure has a tin ear when it comes the Church in Africa especially. And folks wonder why so many of us Catholics are so skeptical of the entire push for "synodality." Well, we know blatant hypocrisy when we see it. We recognize what a smokescreen is. These elitist Europeans must not think much of the intelligence of Africans. Oh, but we can be assured that, in the Church of Synodality, those on the margins are always heard.
God bless the Church in Africa!
In the olden days when a king called an Ecumenical Council to oppose the Pope, the Pope called an Ecumenical Council to thwart the one the king called. It's possible the synod on synodality is an attempt to thwart the Germans.
I suspect that in ages past both monarchs and popes thought and acted considerably more decisively than modern rulers do. In the modern world, justificatory language seems to be used with increasing vagueness. I suppose that's one sign of the way the bureaucratic mind thinks. It is likely to act decisively but then justify its action publicly with clouds of confusing verbiage.
As others in the thread have mentioned, an African Pope is what the Church needs. Orthodoxy and common sense, things the Western hierarchy has little of.
Didn't read it all (getting mind numbed from everything about this) but if the bishops of Malawi said that blessings of “same-sex unions of any kind, are not permitted in Malawi" that does NOT mean they rebuffed it, but couldn't they be clarifying they aren't blessing the union itself? But could still bless the people? In the longer part, they said "“to avoid creating confusion among the faithful, we direct that for pastoral reasons, blessings of any kind and for same-sex unions of any kind are not permitted in Malawi.”" which to me sounds like they aren't blessing the union.
I wonder if a lot of the difference between European sentiment and not just Africa, but much of the rest of the world, is that in Europe the bishops and church institutions are just so used to being in relationships with secular powers and at the center of the culture that they not only have a strong motivation (both psychologically and financially) to appease the secular powers and culture, but they don't even know what doing otherwise would look like. They have few muscles for resistance or marginalization. Some are literal European aristocrats themselves.
But in places like Africa and Asia, Christians are still used to being oppressed and marginalized. They deal with violence and martyrdom still. And their commitment to the gospel is refined by this.
Its my impression that orthodoxy increasingly exists in inverse proportion to the secular power and cultural dominance of the church in a given region.
// This suggests that in its response to Fiducia supplicans, the Church in Africa could be forming a powerful united front. //
That could be very useful. Some large groups need to declare doctrine forcefully to counter the endless stream of confusing language emanating from the top levels of the Vatican.